From CSTACY at MIT-MC Fri Aug 24 00:00:00 1984 From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy) Date: 24 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: No subject Message-ID: SALV and exec DDT are write locked. From GUMBY at MIT-MC Mon Aug 20 00:00:00 1984 From: GUMBY at MIT-MC (David Vinayak Wallace) Date: 20 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: breaking ITS net connections In-Reply-To: Msg of Sun Aug 19 11:54:15 1984 from mclure at sri-prism Message-ID: >From an ether tip typing the esacpe twice sends it through; I use the feature from the h19's in he basement of mjh all the time. But if you find that objectionable, why not change the escape character for your telnet to be something else? david PS: Bug-its: on the other hand, since everybody has infinite free time, and isn't working on things like theses, what's wrong with .e.g. 2u logging out and detaching non-hardwired lines? From ALAN at MIT-MC Sun Aug 19 00:00:00 1984 From: ALAN at MIT-MC (Alan Bawden) Date: 19 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: breaking ITS net connections In-Reply-To: Msg of Sun Aug 19 11:54:15 1984 from mclure at sri-prism Message-ID: Date: Sun Aug 19 11:54:15 1984 From: mclure at sri-prism That's just the point. If I am using the Stanford ethernet to access score, there are certain instances where my escape will be robbed by a superior program and unavailable to telnet.... Have you complained to anyone about this misfeature? Seems like your real problem is that you are forced to use a broken program to make your first hop over the network. I suppose we could put a command in DDT that guns its own telnet server... Always seems a shame to have to do things like this to compensate for other people's bugs. From DCP at MIT-MC Sun Aug 19 00:00:00 1984 From: DCP at MIT-MC (David C. Plummer) Date: 19 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: breaking ITS net connections Message-ID: Date: Sun Aug 19 11:54:15 1984 From: mclure at sri-prism That's just the point. If I am using the Stanford ethernet to access score, there are certain instances where my escape will be robbed by a superior program and unavailable to telnet. So I am unable to close the connection because I can't escape back to my telnet (without escaping to the ethernet tip, or whatever other medium happens to be in the way). Your user program is seriously misdesigned. My question still stands. Is there a way in ITS DDT to break a connection manually? If not, I think one should be added as everyone else has one and it has shown itself to be desirable. No, and NO!!! Alan's message shows that this is considered a win (by the ITS community, at least). If your user program doesn't have a command to forcibly disconnect you, I suggest you find another program, or stop using ITS. How would you get out if you started running a program that has super-image-input on so you couldn't even type c-Z (er, CALL). From mclure at sri-prism Sun Aug 19 11:54:15 1984 From: mclure at sri-prism (mclure at sri-prism) Date: Sun Aug 19 11:54:15 1984 Subject: breaking ITS net connections Message-ID: <8408191856.AA06644@sri-prism.ARPA> That's just the point. If I am using the Stanford ethernet to access score, there are certain instances where my escape will be robbed by a superior program and unavailable to telnet. So I am unable to close the connection because I can't escape back to my telnet (without escaping to the ethernet tip, or whatever other medium happens to be in the way). My question still stands. Is there a way in ITS DDT to break a connection manually? If not, I think one should be added as everyone else has one and it has shown itself to be desirable. Stuart From ALAN at MIT-MC Sun Aug 19 00:00:00 1984 From: ALAN at MIT-MC (Alan Bawden) Date: 19 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: breaking ITS net connections Message-ID: Date: 19 August 1984 14:33-EDT From: Christopher C. Stacy After logging out of ITS, why not close the connection from your end, perhaps by killing your TELNET program or issuing a "close" command to it? This will not leave any ITS job hanging. Perhaps he in confused by the fact that ITS doesn't close the connection IMMEDIATELY after you log out? If you wait a few minutes after you logout, your TELNET server will wake up and break the connection. We regard this as a feature; it gives you a chance to re-use the connection by typing ^Z (er, CALL). Its like having a hardwired line, except it times out eventually. The same philosophy applies to the way ITS handles logging out from a dialup. Having this feature from dialups is actually even more of a win. It lets someone else log into the machine without having to re-dial the phone. The whole things seems like such a simple courtesy that I'm always surprised that the 20X wizards around here don't adopt the feature. From CSTACY at MIT-MC Sun Aug 19 00:00:00 1984 From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy) Date: 19 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: breaking ITS net connections In-Reply-To: Msg of Sun 19 Aug 84 10:57:35-PDT from Stuart McLure Cracraft Message-ID: After logging out of ITS, why not close the connection from your end, perhaps by killing your TELNET program or issuing a "close" command to it? This will not leave any ITS job hanging. From G.MCLURE at SU-SCORE.ARPA Sun Aug 19 00:00:00 1984 From: G.MCLURE at SU-SCORE.ARPA (Stuart McLure Cracraft) Date: Sun 19 Aug 84, 00:00 Subject: breaking ITS net connections Message-ID: There seems to be no good way to break a net connection on the ITS machines. Perhaps there is one, but it is not obvious. TOPS-20 Arpanet machines usually break the connection upon logout. WAITS allows you to break it with the 'QUIT' command. Unix lets you break a net connection at the 'login:' prompt by typing ^D. Does ITS have an equivalent? I have left many jobs hanging/detached on MIT machines over the years whenever the telnet/modem/network configuration I am reaching it through does not allow an escape character of its own. Thanks. Stuart ------- From MOON at MIT-MC Sat Aug 18 00:00:00 1984 From: MOON at MIT-MC (David A. Moon) Date: 18 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: No subject Message-ID: looks like the source to sys1;ts time is lost. From CENT at MIT-MC Mon Aug 13 00:00:00 1984 From: CENT at MIT-MC (Pandora B. Berman) Date: 13 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: someone has this KA, you see... Message-ID: [damned if i know why they asked me.] ---------- Date: 13 Aug 84 15:38 +0200 From: Bjorn_Danielsson_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA To: "Pandora B. Berman" Subject: ITS Hello. Some friends of mine in the computer club STACKEN in Stockholm, Sweden want to get hold of an ITS operating system for their KA-10 computer. Could you tell me if it is possible to get the sources and documentation, including information about the extra paging hardware? Bjorn Danielsson From ALAN at MIT-MC Sat Aug 11 00:00:00 1984 From: ALAN at MIT-MC (Alan Bawden) Date: 11 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: mc:crash;tcp .value In-Reply-To: Msg of 11 Aug 1984 18:54-EDT from David A. Moon Message-ID: Date: 11 August 1984 18:54-EDT From: David A. Moon Date: 1 August 1984 18:12-EDT From: Alan Bawden Dunno who maintains the TCP server exactly, ... "The" TCP server? Guesswork reveals that it's the FTP/SMTP server... When I said "TCP server", I was talking about the Chaosnet TCP server. You know, the thing that gets loaded from DEVICE;CHAOS TCP. I didn't think too hard about how ambiguous that would sound in a bug note CC'd to BUG-TCP. Now a good question is how did I manage to mistake an FTP server for that? (Perhaps I need to think again about how the MOVE instruction works.) From MOON at MIT-MC Sat Aug 11 00:00:00 1984 From: MOON at MIT-MC (David A. Moon) Date: 11 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: mc:crash;tcp .value Message-ID: Date: 1 August 1984 18:12-EDT From: Alan Bawden To: BUG-ITS @ MIT-MC, BUG-TCP @ MIT-MC Dunno who maintains the TCP server exactly, but I found a couple that had .VALUEd just now. I dumped one of them into CRASH;TCP .VALUE Seems to me that I'm seeing more of these guys .VALUEing recently so perhaps someone should take a look. "The" TCP server? Guesswork reveals that it's the FTP/SMTP server found in SYSBIN;FTPS BIN and it got an error from a FINISH system call in RETR05 called from the LIST command (look at location AUTPSY). I guess it's not robust to the user killing the connection while it's in the middle of listing a directory. I fixed this in the source but cannot reassemble FTPS because KLH's macros, which it uses, have been changed incompatibly. I found the file ksc;?out >, which purports to explain how to convert, but I can find no indication of how to convert OUTOPN in there so I'll leave this for KLH to fix or advise about. Presumably plenty of other programs are broken the same way. I didn't delete the CRASH file in case anyone else wants to look at it. From DCP at MIT-MC Thu Aug 9 00:00:00 1984 From: DCP at MIT-MC (David C. Plummer) Date: 9 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: rebooted hubs Message-ID: Received: from MIT-MC by MIT-OZ via Chaosnet; 8 Aug 84 19:11-EDT Date: 8 August 1984 19:04-EDT From: Alan Bawden In-reply-to: Msg of 8 Aug 1984 18:01-EDT from David C. Plummer Date: 8 August 1984 18:01-EDT From: David C. Plummer I think there are (undocumented) frobs that can follow the 034 of ITP to say this. If I can find it in the source in the next 4 minutes, I'll let you know... Undocumented? fooey! Do :INFO ITS TTY SMART ESCAPE and you will find what you are looking for. It's not documented in the SUPDUP RFC (though I didn't look very hard, but I remember that it isn't documented there). From ALAN at MIT-MC Wed Aug 8 00:00:00 1984 From: ALAN at MIT-MC (Alan Bawden) Date: 8 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: rebooted hubs In-Reply-To: Msg of 8 Aug 1984 18:01-EDT from David C. Plummer Message-ID: Date: 8 August 1984 18:01-EDT From: David C. Plummer I think there are (undocumented) frobs that can follow the 034 of ITP to say this. If I can find it in the source in the next 4 minutes, I'll let you know... Undocumented? fooey! Do :INFO ITS TTY SMART ESCAPE and you will find what you are looking for. From DCP at MIT-MC Wed Aug 8 00:00:00 1984 From: DCP at MIT-MC (David C. Plummer) Date: 8 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: rebooted hubs Message-ID: Date: 8 August 1984 17:14-EDT From: David Vinayak Wallace In-reply-to: Msg of Mon 6 Aug 84 12:42:28-EDT from David Siegel It would gubbish your screen unless there were a way to tell ITS that typeout had occurred. I think there are (undocumented) frobs that can follow the 034 of ITP to say this. If I can find it in the source in the next 4 minutes, I'll let you know... Here it is... gotta run... TYBCTL: CAIN A,^A ;^\^A => ALLOCATE OUTPUT CHARS. JRST TYBA CAIN A,^Z ;^\^Z => ZERO ALLOCATION JRST TYBZ CAIN A,^I ;^\^I => INFINITY ALLOCATION JRST TYBI CAIN A,^R ;^\^R => RESTART OUTPUT AT M.P. LEVEL. JRST TYBR CAIN A,^P ;^\^P => SET CURSOR POSITION AND RESTART OUTPUT AT M.P. LEVEL. JRST TYBP CAIN A,^\ ;^\^\ => INPUT A ^\. JRST TYBRET CAIN A,^C ;^\^C => SCREEN HAS BEEN SURREPTITIOUSLY CHANGED PUSHJ P,TYBC ;RETURN TO NORMAL ^\ STATUS BUT DON'T PASS ANY INPUT UP TO NORMAL INPUT LEVEL. From DCP at MIT-MC Wed Aug 8 00:00:00 1984 From: DCP at MIT-MC (David C. Plummer) Date: 8 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: rebooted hubs Message-ID: Date: 8 August 1984 17:14-EDT From: David Vinayak Wallace In-reply-to: Msg of Mon 6 Aug 84 12:42:28-EDT from David Siegel It would gubbish your screen unless there were a way to tell ITS that typeout had occurred. I think there are (undocumented) frobs that can follow the 034 of ITP to say this. If I can find it in the source in the next 4 minutes, I'll let you know... From GUMBY at MIT-MC Wed Aug 8 00:00:00 1984 From: GUMBY at MIT-MC (David Vinayak Wallace) Date: 8 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: rebooted hubs In-Reply-To: Msg of Mon 6 Aug 84 12:42:28-EDT from David Siegel Message-ID: It would gubbish your screen unless there were a way to tell ITS that typeout had occurred. From KLOTZ at MIT-MC Tue Aug 7 00:00:00 1984 From: KLOTZ at MIT-MC (Leigh L. Klotz) Date: 7 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: chuname broken In-Reply-To: Msg of 5 Aug 1984 22:31-EDT from Richard Mlynarik Message-ID: Are you sure that you weren't already logged in (or detached) as MLY when you tried doing :CHUNAME MLY? That's what's usually happening when you get the ? response. From ALAN at MIT-MC Sun Aug 5 00:00:00 1984 From: ALAN at MIT-MC (Alan Bawden) Date: 5 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: chuname broken In-Reply-To: Msg of 5 Aug 1984 22:31-EDT from Richard Mlynarik Message-ID: Date: 5 August 1984 22:31-EDT From: Richard Mlynarik Sender: MLY0 logged in as anything, and typing ":chuname mly" at ddt gets me the right "--massacre and reset--" but confirming with a space just gets me a "?" and my uname is still the same. This bug report seems to be saying that you were unable to get CHUNAME to work under any circumstances. Funny, because I can't seem to get it to fail under any circumstances. I notice that you sent this bug report logged in as "MLY0", perhaps you can tell me what other MLY's were logged in at the time, what you were logged in as, and what you tried to CHUNAME to. From DEVON at MIT-MC Sun Aug 5 00:00:00 1984 From: DEVON at MIT-MC (Devon S. McCullough) Date: 5 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: No subject Message-ID: emacs got a .val 0; 35572>>move 1,3 1/17450 3/24 when I tried to find a file on HS: From MLY at MIT-MC Sun Aug 5 00:00:00 1984 From: MLY at MIT-MC (Richard Mlynarik) Date: 5 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: chuname broken Message-ID: logged in as anything, and typing ":chuname mly" at ddt gets me the right "--massacre and reset--" but confirming with a space just gets me a "?" and my uname is still the same. From CSTACY at MIT-MC Sun Aug 5 00:00:00 1984 From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy) Date: 5 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: No subject Message-ID: The NETWRK package only defines a single Chaosnet packet buffer, so you can only hack on connection at a time. From ALAN at MIT-MC Wed Aug 1 00:00:00 1984 From: ALAN at MIT-MC (Alan Bawden) Date: 1 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Dunno who maintains the TCP server exactly, but I found a couple that had .VALUEd just now. I dumped one of them into CRASH;TCP .VALUE Seems to me that I'm seeing more of these guys .VALUEing recently so perhaps someone should take a look. From CSTACY at MIT-MC Wed Aug 1 00:00:00 1984 From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy) Date: 1 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: EMACS not working on MC, and BUG-EMACS broken In-Reply-To: Msg of 1 Aug 1984 13:12-EDT from Ronald I. Greenberg Message-ID: The mail receipt you received from the COMSAT only indicates that a there is an addressee (ECARTER at OFFICE-2) who is a member of the BUG-EMACS mailing list, but who in fact does not exist. Your message was delivered to all the other BUG-EMACS people. I just tried EMACS on MC, and it is working fine. From RIG at MIT-MC Wed Aug 1 00:00:00 1984 From: RIG at MIT-MC (Ronald I. Greenberg) Date: 1 August 1984, 00:00 Subject: No subject Message-ID: :bug emacs didn't work as evidenced by the following returned mail. Date: 01 Aug 1984 00:00 From: COMSAT at MIT-MC Subject: Msg of Wednesday, 1 August 1984 12:39-EDT To: RIG at MIT-MC Queued: JSL at MIT-MULTICS, Carter at RUTGERS FAILED: ECARTER at OFFICE-2; Recipient name apparently rejected. Last reply was: {550 No such mailbox here} Failed message follows: ------- Date: 1 August 1984, 00:00 From: Ronald I. Greenberg To: BUG-EMACS @ MIT-MC A little while ago, while logged on to MC I found EMACS working improperly. For example, c-E, m-F, and m-B were going to incorrect places. One time m-F took me backwards one character! I would be interested in finding out what was wrong. Ron Greenberg rig at mc By the way, I suppose the emacs problem might really be a problem with the terminal. I will try to check this out.