From CSTACY at MIT-MC  Thu Feb 28 00:00:00 1985
From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy)
Date: 28 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: PDSET
Message-ID: <mailman.1436.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

I rewrote PDSET from scratch, and made some improvements to
the DWIM in the DATIME library.  The new PDSET has not yet
been tested entirely, and is not installed.  Also, I didn't
hack it up for the KS10 yet either.  Will do some evening...

From CSTACY at MIT-MC  Thu Feb 21 00:00:00 1985
From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy)
Date: 21 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: un-named hosts
In-Reply-To: Msg of 20 Feb 1985 23:24-EST from Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY>
Message-ID: <mailman.1437.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

    Date: 20 February 1985 23:24-EST
    From: Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY>
    To:   BUG-MAIL

    Someone at SCRC just tried to send me a message from a host not
    in our tables; he was refused by our server.  I bet that the server
    died trying to look it up.   I'll make it say CHAOS|nnnn or something.


OK, I fixed this so that the Chaosnet SEND server will claim the
message came from a host named like "24516/CHAOS".

It occurred to me that it would be nice to be able to REPLY to these
guys too, so I went and hacked up the NETWRK library to accept various
numerical host names.  (There was some code in NETWRK to parse some of
these, but it was pretty broken and looked like it could never have worked.)

Then I hacked up SENDER a little, mostly to know about the following
poorly documented return convention of NETWRK"HSTLOOK: even if A gets
a host address, B may contain zero rather than a database pointer.

I also reassembled TELNET with the new NETWRK.  With the right
switches set, programs will now parse all these equivalent forms:

   MIT-AI       ; symbolic
   10.2.0.6     ; Internet address
   2/6          ; Host 2 on IMP 6.
   3130/CHAOS   ; (Other nets work too: 400006/ARPA is MIT-AI,
                                        77/SATNET is GOONHILLY-ECHO)


If anything mysterious starts happenning with programs as they are
re-assembled with the new NETWRK, let me know.

Chris

From JTW%MIT-SPEECH at MIT-MC.ARPA  Thu Feb 21 00:00:00 1985
From: JTW%MIT-SPEECH at MIT-MC.ARPA (John Wroclawski)
Date: Thu 21 Feb 85, 00:00
Subject: ITS
In-Reply-To: Message from "Pandora B. Berman <CENT @ MIT-MC>" of Wed 20 Feb 85 23:25:36-EST
Message-ID: <mailman.1438.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

    From: Pandora B. Berman <CENT @ MIT-MC>
    Subject: ITS
    
        From:        Bjorn_Danielsson_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
        To:          BUG-ITS at MIT-MC.ARPA
        Subject:     ITS
    
        ....
    
    
    it's been a long time since we said anything; sorry (at least we could
    have said it would take a long while or something). a chief problem
    that i have heard some of the hackers here mention about running ITS
    on your system is that the hardware list you sent does not include a
    paging box (i'm not sure what number that would be -- perhaps DM10 --
    someone will jump on me if i'm wrong).

Um, actually it's not a DEC frob at all, so it hasn't got a number. The
ones which were used at MIT were built either by us or Systems Concepts,
I believe. ITS paging is somewhat different than TOPS-10, both of which
are completely different than TENEX/TOPS-20.

On the other hand, it might be possible to pound on your KI10 enough
to get it to do ITS paging using the KI's paging hardware. The page
tables are of different format, the pages are larger, and of course
page faults are reported to the OS differently.


    also the ITS sources are not
    neatly available already on a single tape; someone would have to go
    through things and figure out what to send you, and we have all been
    sort of busy (we work full time on other things, or are students,
    etc.)

Hmmm, if they have a TOPS-10 running, they at least have something to
run MIDAS on. It's a start. Maybe when the KS is done things will be in
one place...

    i think BBN flushed their last tenex last spring; not sure who
    you could ask there for further details.
    
They did. There are still a few of them running around the Arpanet
though. If you can get the right paging hardware to run TENEX you
actually have a pretty good chance of getting TOPS-20 up, if you can
find a set of version 3 or 4 sources. You would either have to change
a lot of code or change the way traps and such work on the KI though.
For TENEX, I'd start by trying to get the latest sources from BBN,
presumably they still have them around.
-------

From CENT at MIT-MC  Wed Feb 20 00:00:00 1985
From: CENT at MIT-MC (Pandora B. Berman)
Date: 20 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: ITS
Message-ID: <mailman.1439.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

    Date:        20 Feb 85 19:42 +0100
    From:        Bjorn_Danielsson_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA
    To:          BUG-ITS at MIT-MC.ARPA
    Subject:     ITS
    Does anyone over there have an ITS tape? We (of the computer club
    STACKEN) would very much like to take a look at it and see if we can
    run it on our KA10. Any kind of tape will do, we think we can manage to
    decode it. And we promise not to bother you with questions later. We
    are even prepared to promise Ronald Reagan that we won't give it to the
    Russians :-) We have finally found a room to put the machine in, and it
    will be installed very soon. In the meantime we have gotten another
    machine, a KI10, which has been up and running several months.  It runs
    a slightly modified TOPS-10 V7.02 (which isn't supposed to run on KI at
    all), and we have managed to simulate some KL instructions, for example
    ADJSP. We are planning hardware modifications so we can do ADJBP too.
    But TOPS-10 is not very exciting, so we have been thinking about
    getting up TENEX, or even TOPS-20. Do you know any place we can get a
    KI10 TENEX monitor?  Does BBN still run TENEX? Any pointers would be
    appreciated.

it's been a long time since we said anything; sorry (at least we could have
said it would take a long while or something). a chief problem that i have
heard some of the hackers here mention about running ITS on your system is
that the hardware list you sent does not include a paging box (i'm not sure
what number that would be -- perhaps DM10 -- someone will jump on me if i'm
wrong). also the ITS sources are not neatly available already on a single
tape; someone would have to go through things and figure out what to send
you, and we have all been sort of busy (we work full time on other things,
or are students, etc.) i think BBN flushed their last tenex last spring;
not sure who you could ask there for further details.

maybe some piece of your KI could be used as an ITS paging box? i don't
know (i'm not a hacker, alas, so i can't do more than speculate).

From Bjorn_Danielsson_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA  Wed Feb 20 19:42:00 1985
From: Bjorn_Danielsson_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA (Bjorn_Danielsson_QZ%QZCOM.MAILNET at MIT-MULTICS.ARPA)
Date: 20 Feb 85 19:42 +0100
Subject: ITS
Message-ID: <91827@QZCOM>

Does anyone over there have an ITS tape?
We (of the computer club STACKEN) would very much like to take
a look at it and see if we can run it on our KA10. Any kind of
tape will do, we think we can manage to decode it. And we promise
not to bother you with questions later. We are even prepared to
promise Ronald Reagan that we won't give it to the Russians :-)
We have finally found a room to put the machine in, and it will be
installed very soon. In the meantime we have gotten another
machine, a KI10, which has been up and running several months.
It runs a slightly modified TOPS-10 V7.02 (which isn't supposed
to run on KI at all), and we have managed to simulate some
KL instructions, for example ADJSP. We are planning hardware
modifications so we can do ADJBP too. But TOPS-10 is not very
exciting, so we have been thinking about getting up TENEX, or
even TOPS-20. Do you know any place we can get a KI10 TENEX monitor?
Does BBN still run TENEX? Any pointers would be appreciated.

        Happy hacking,

        Bjorn Danielsson
        Datorforeningen STACKEN
        c/o NADA
        Royal Institute of Technology
        S-100 44 Stockholm
        SWEDEN




From GSB at MIT-MC  Wed Feb 13 00:00:00 1985
From: GSB at MIT-MC (Glenn S. Braindeath)
Date: 13 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: "IBO"
Message-ID: <mailman.1440.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

I just got an IBO message...
I seem to remember that this ain't supposed to happen.
A minute later everything worked fine.  (i'mon 1200 baud dialup)

From MOON at MIT-MC  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: MOON at MIT-MC (David A. Moon)
Date: 12 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
Message-ID: <mailman.1441.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

    Date: 12 February 1985 17:42-EST
    From: Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY @ MIT-MC>
    Subject:  NTSDDT
    To: JNC @ MIT-XX
    cc: BUG-ITS @ MIT-MC, TY @ MIT-MC
    In-reply-to: Msg of Tue 12 Feb 85 17:40:25-EST from J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>

	Date: Tue 12 Feb 85 17:40:25-EST
	From: J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>
	To:   CSTACY at MIT-MC.ARPA
	cc:   BUG-ITS at MIT-MC.ARPA, TY at MIT-MC.ARPA, JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA
	Re:   NTSDDT

	    Date: 12 February 1985 17:32-EST
	    From: Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY>

		Date: Tue 12 Feb 85 17:29:53-EST
		From: J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>

		I was speaking about making the system tattle on changes to
		.KLFE., or did you hack KLFEDR too?

	    OOoh. I believe when you write a file on the front-end file system it
	    changes pointers which live in files in the ITS directory.

	Nope. There is no entry for NTSDDT CMD in .KLFE.; but running
	KLFEDR reveals that it is there.

    OOoh. I believe when you write a file on the front-end file system it
    changes POINTERS WHICH LIVE IN FILES in the ITS directory.


It's more complicated than that.  We don't use the RSX-11 file system,
we use the KLDCP file system which DEC later flushed..  Also the front-end
files aren't in any one place on the disk, but are scattered all
over.  Some of them, especially the larger ones, reside in individual ITS
files, others are pieces portions of an ITS file.  And if you move or delete
anything on the .KLFE. directory you screw it up since somewhere there is
a KLDCP directory containing absolute disk addresses.
You could make the .KLFE. dir be proetcedt and also make KLFEDR tattle itself
somehow.

From JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA (J. Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue 12 Feb 85, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Message from "Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY @ MIT-MC>" of Tue 12 Feb 85 17:42:00-EST
Message-ID: <mailman.1442.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

	I parsed that correctly the second time. Yes, there does seem
to be this file KLDCP (DIR) which macgically contains the actual blocks
of the RSX-11 directory. So you will get the miscreants name (if done
under ITS), but not which file he bashed.
-------

From CSTACY at MIT-MC  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy)
Date: 12 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Msg of Tue 12 Feb 85 17:40:25-EST from J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>
Message-ID: <mailman.1443.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

    Date: Tue 12 Feb 85 17:40:25-EST
    From: J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>
    To:   CSTACY at MIT-MC.ARPA
    cc:   BUG-ITS at MIT-MC.ARPA, TY at MIT-MC.ARPA, JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA
    Re:   NTSDDT

        Date: 12 February 1985 17:32-EST
        From: Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY>

            Date: Tue 12 Feb 85 17:29:53-EST
            From: J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>

            I was speaking about making the system tattle on changes to
            .KLFE., or did you hack KLFEDR too?

        OOoh. I believe when you write a file on the front-end file system it
        changes pointers which live in files in the ITS directory.

    Nope. There is no entry for NTSDDT CMD in .KLFE.; but running
    KLFEDR reveals that it is there.

OOoh. I believe when you write a file on the front-end file system it
changes POINTERS WHICH LIVE IN FILES in the ITS directory.



From JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA (J. Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue 12 Feb 85, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Message from "Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY @ MIT-MC>" of Tue 12 Feb 85 17:32:00-EST
Message-ID: <mailman.1444.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

	Nope. There is no entry for NTSDDT CMD in .KLFE.; but running
KLFEDR reveals that it is there.
-------

From CSTACY at MIT-MC  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy)
Date: 12 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Msg of Tue 12 Feb 85 17:29:53-EST from J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>
Message-ID: <mailman.1445.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

    Date: Tue 12 Feb 85 17:29:53-EST
    From: J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>

    I was speaking about making the system tattle on changes to
    .KLFE., or did you hack KLFEDR too?

OOoh. I believe when you write a file on the front-end file system it
changes pointers which live in files in the ITS directory.

From JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA (J. Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue 12 Feb 85, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Message from "Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY @ MIT-MC>" of Tue 12 Feb 85 17:12:00-EST
Message-ID: <mailman.1446.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

	I was speaking about making the system tattle on changes to
.KLFE., or did you hack KLFEDR too?
-------

From CSTACY at MIT-MC  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy)
Date: 12 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Msg of Tue 12 Feb 85 12:29:46-EST from J. Noel Chiappa <JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA>
Message-ID: <mailman.1447.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

Huh? I put the file back into the front-end file system,
and it has been working for a couple of days.

From JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA  Tue Feb 12 00:00:00 1985
From: JNC at MIT-XX.ARPA (J. Noel Chiappa)
Date: Tue 12 Feb 85, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
In-Reply-To: Message from "Christopher C. Stacy <CSTACY @ MIT-MC>" of Fri 8 Feb 85 13:17:00-EST
Message-ID: <mailman.1448.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

	It's not clear if this will do the right thing, since presumably
the file was also deleted from the RSX-11 directory, which would have used 
KLFEDR or whatever the fuck that program is called. In fact, you could
delete it with KLFEDR and not touch the directory entry in .KLFE. I guess.
-------

From HIRSCH at MIT-MC  Fri Feb  8 00:00:00 1985
From: HIRSCH at MIT-MC (David E. Hirsch)
Date: 8 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <mailman.1449.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

this is NOT hirsh.  I just ROLM'ed to MC and whoops, here I am all logged in and everything.  Oh well.  I'm on T30.

From CSTACY at MIT-MC  Fri Feb  8 00:00:00 1985
From: CSTACY at MIT-MC (Christopher C. Stacy)
Date: 8 February 1985, 00:00
Subject: NTSDDT
Message-ID: <mailman.1450.1479821149.4695.its@nocrew.org>

The front end file NTSDDT seems to have been deleted over the weekend.
I re-created it; you can boot the system normally now.
I also made the front-end file directory be tattled on by the system job.